Jonny Craig
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Post by Jonny Craig on Nov 9, 2004 6:14:53 GMT
Hello my fellow brits and americans and stuiped bush supporters I would like to start up an argument with you all 1. Bush should never of won the election, he is an idiot and I hate him. He's doing damage to our not so perfect world. He's puppet for everyone else 2. America can't see sense for toffee (No offense) but why bush? Why not kerry or a good president? 3. Terrorisim does it really exist or is it all the media and a few people determined to topple Iraq? Or are we the real terrorists? More to follow Please argue with me, it's what I want
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Gorek
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Post by Gorek on Nov 9, 2004 11:09:25 GMT
i agree with poitn 1 & 2. but i do not believe that terrorism is fake. I believe that terrorism is actually just misunderstandings in culture.
example right if a prostitute was killed that would be called murder right.
if a normal everyday woman is killed by a bomb it is called a terrorist attack.
in the terrorist eyes our version of a normal woman is a prostitute as in their culture women cant show any part of their body other than eyes and hands in public which most of our women take to a new level so in thewir eyes they are only commiting murder not a terrorist attack. and the murders are as a result of out oppression over them for the last god knows how many years but it has been going on for a long time.
so thats what i think they are retaliating to our oppresion with murders.
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RenSuzuki
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Post by RenSuzuki on Nov 10, 2004 1:11:47 GMT
Hello my fellow brits and americans and stuiped bush supporters I would like to start up an argument with you all 1. Bush should never of won the election, he is an idiot and I hate him. He's doing damage to our not so perfect world. He's puppet for everyone else 2. America can't see sense for toffee (No offense) but why bush? Why not kerry or a good president? 3. Terrorisim does it really exist or is it all the media and a few people determined to topple Iraq? Or are we the real terrorists? More to follow Please argue with me, it's what I want 1 and 2 are correct 3, terrorism exists, what Bush did in Iraq was terrorism, 9/11 was terrorism, etc. It is attacks against civilians to get back at the government or something
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Post by ShenmueAddict on Nov 12, 2004 15:08:00 GMT
1 and 2 are correct 3, terrorism exists, what Bush did in Iraq was terrorism, 9/11 was terrorism, etc. It is attacks against civilians to get back at the government or something How was what bush did terrorism? He went after Saddam hussain not Civilians, yes civilians got killed in the process but there is always civilian casualties in wars.
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RenSuzuki
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Post by RenSuzuki on Nov 12, 2004 15:48:36 GMT
How was what bush did terrorism? He went after Saddam hussain not Civilians, yes civilians got killed in the process but there is always civilian casualties in wars. he's killed over 3x as many civilians as were killed in 9/11. But I remember a while ago, on the Dojo, Whiteshadow took a dictionary definition of terrorism, and it was scary how exact it fit to Bush. And I'm increasingly beginning to think that Bush went after oil, not Saddam Husein
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Post by ShenmueAddict on Nov 12, 2004 23:57:10 GMT
And I'm increasingly beginning to think that Bush went after oil, not Saddam Husein Yeh same here, I got Fahrenhiet 9/11 and after watching it i think he went for the oil too.
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RenSuzuki
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Post by RenSuzuki on Nov 13, 2004 0:57:47 GMT
Yeh same here, I got Fahrenhiet 9/11 and after watching it i think he went for the oil too. Now I'm as big a Bush basher as there is, but when people used the oil thing at first, I honestly thought it was just stupid. It didn't make sense, the oil profits wouldn't nearly make up for the debt the USA incured with Iraq. But now I look at it (and a clip in Farenheit 9/11 I believe showede a meeting with businessmen), and realized that the debt is hurting the citizens of the country, and while invading Iraq may be bad for the people, it will be good for a lot of big businesses, which is who Bush is supporting. Financially, Iraq War was bad for the States as a whole, but good for the people Bush represented. And two big reasons for going into Iraq were because of WMD's (which didn't exist) and to save the people (there were countreis a lot worse of than Iraq, even with Saddam that could of used the help of the US). So thousands of Iraqis and Americans dead, Iraq still a shitty place to live, was this all a simple intelligence mistake, or did Bush have his own personal reasons for the invasion?
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Post by Residential on Nov 15, 2004 13:55:08 GMT
I don't know anything about Terrorism.
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Jonny Craig
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Post by Jonny Craig on Nov 15, 2004 14:48:20 GMT
I don't know anything about Terrorism. Well you should because effects us all I agree the oil was the main purpose for invading Iraq. Now how about this. After collectively watching several internet stories, reading articles and watching footage of 9/11, it was to my conclusion an "Inside Job" 1. The planes that hit the towers appear to have no windows, curious 2. The explosions after the planes hit the towers were to big to be caused by fuel and the plane alone, explosives must have been fitted in order for the steel to bend and melt 3. The black box's were never found according to the FBI, bullshit they've hidden them 4. The hijackers that supposedly hijacked the plane weren't even on the plane at the time they were else where in the middle east The pentagon heres an interesting one 1. There was no reckage of a plane at the site of the pentagon and also footage of the pentagon explosion was only shown ONCE on the major media news proggrams. Which means a missle must of hit it and not a plane 2. Footage of what hit the pentagon from a Hotel and a parking garage near by where confiscated by the FBI and never released 3. If it was a plane no black box has been found and/or released 4. The FBI know the truth Also The plane that crashed in pensylvania was a deleberate ploy by the americans to show us that is was hijackers but it would have been impossible to over throw the hijackers But the biggest point of them all IS The planes were of course for more than 30 minutes. As far as I'm aware if a plane goes ofcourse then a fighter jet is instantly deployed to escort the plane to safety, not this time and the fact is also no one knew so hmmm All this means that america is only after one thing World Domination I know it sounds stuiped but pay attention to the next four years and you'll see what I mean First Iraq, who's next?
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RenSuzuki
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Post by RenSuzuki on Nov 15, 2004 20:13:02 GMT
there's some interesting points there, but even Bush wouldn't do that.
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Gorek
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Post by Gorek on Nov 16, 2004 22:35:08 GMT
please someone delete all of res's posts as they are irrleivent ( i know it's wrong).
and i actually agree with alot of what luke put as me and i think it was steve saw a clip of the pentagon after the explosion and there was no debris from the plane
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RenSuzuki
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Post by RenSuzuki on Nov 17, 2004 15:46:50 GMT
I'll leave Res's posts (just cus I'd rather not be deleting people's posts), although I agree that they are completely useless
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RenSuzuki
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Post by RenSuzuki on Nov 18, 2004 1:52:34 GMT
it's not a gruge but look the post you just made again has nothing to do with this so please delete both this post and all of his. out of respect for a former admin, I'll do that. Plus I"m not really opposed to the idea. I'm leaving his first post because it is somewhat relevant
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Gorek
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Post by Gorek on Nov 18, 2004 10:33:24 GMT
thats fair enough.
And btw a new thought
what if terrorism is a mear illusion made up by people so they can do things they want to do.
sort of what luke said but not actually bush doing it cus he is too stupid. enver seen one of his speechs lol well funny.
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Jonny Craig
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Post by Jonny Craig on Nov 21, 2004 0:20:08 GMT
there's some interesting points there, but even Bush wouldn't do that. If it's not Bush doing the talking, then someone is, but who?
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Post by JoePesciAddict on Nov 26, 2004 5:18:24 GMT
Bush was not going after oil. You all are undermining the fact that the oil imports the U.S. has are the same. If it was true that oil was the cause for war then gas prices would have decreased, not increased. It is all demand for the subject that is being talked about.
Next thing, No way in fucking hell would 9/11 be an inside job. I don't think any americans would be willing to give up there life in the first place. Second, what about all of the families that were crying over there lost ones. Also, there is definetly a better view of America from the inside. I know you think it is better from your standpoints but from some of these posts I see you guys are gathering nothing that is going on with America. Bush won the election for a reason. He clearly has the most common sense. Even though his dialogue can be upgraded. Kerry would have gotten us into another war right before this one was even over. He would of taken the troops out of Iraq and sent them into North Korea. The reasons leading to this would be the fact that he wants bilateral talks with North korea which will take China away from our allies and we will be alone. Korea knows they don't stand a chance with china on our sides so they will stay put.
Back to subject at point. Wow, the whole Weapons of Mass Destruction again. Get over it, that was an intelligence mistake, mainly Ashcrofts and Bush had nothing to go by except what they said. Also, one more point of the insiders, I don't think Bush and Osama Bin Laden were working together. T many facts that seperate them. Bush is for big business but what fucking president hasn't been. I guarantee any World leader is for big business. Why do think they are "BIG business" in the first place?
The Plane crash in Pennsylvania was definetly real. I can't believe anyone would discredit those brave Americans who fought for the plane before it could reach The Pentagon. Yes, a missile hit the Pentagon alright.... Footage of the pentagon was shown numerous times here in America (I don't know about were you guys live) and debris was discovered from the plane, especially inside the Pentagon.
Fucking hell! LMFAO!!! World Domination!?!?! I assure you that no american has this on their mind! no fighter Jets were deployed because it was a hijack situation which the government doesn't allow jets to get invloved or that may cause more casualties. If you think World Domination is the case then you need to do some serious studying. Our sole bases are freedom, and I didn't know that if we were looking for world domination that we would be attacking communistic countries like Iraq. I don't think we are going to go to war with North Korea but it is possible since they are planning to attack us with nuclear weapons. And before I hear that bull shit "But America has tons of Nukes!!!" Yeah, but we use them for protection not to destroy a country for no reason. Such as North Korea's intentions. Also, the biggest nuke Korea has won't even go further past Hawaii
Someone please try and prove me wrong by this very looooooooong paragraph I just made. I still can't believe some of the things you guys have said about America. I makes me sick, and I am disgusted that anyone would even think of saying such things
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RenSuzuki
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Post by RenSuzuki on Nov 26, 2004 16:02:54 GMT
Bush was not going after oil. You all are undermining the fact that the oil imports the U.S. has are the same. If it was true that oil was the cause for war then gas prices would have decreased, not increased. It is all demand for the subject that is being talked about. It wouldn't make oil cheaper on the American people, Bush doesn't care about them, but the oil and rebuilding Iraq is very good for big business I never agreed with that, it was an interesting theory, but like I said, even Bush wouldn't do that. With things like healthcare and education I would agree. But with world issues, you can definetely see things better from the outside Also, Bush's decisions affect us so much, my city's economy is basically in the hands of Mr. Bush and we are in trouble because of him. lmao, common sense! Yes, banning gay marriages takes a lot of common sense, just like indirectly blaming Iraq for 9/11, or not renewing laws to keep dangerous arms illegal. I don't think a war would have started with Korrea, however, I don't know tons about the issue so i won't really argue with you Get over it? This isn't Bush saying a word wrong, this is a huge deal. And whether he knew or not about it, if your going to use it as justification for killing thousands of innocent civilians, over 1000 of your soldiers, spending money to put your country in debt, you damn well better know what your doing. For Bush to use that as justification, you can't just say "well it was a mistake" Um on 9/11? I don't think so Democratic world leaders are much less for big business. Basically there is the left and right wing theories. The left wing is that you you give the working people what they need, let businesses survive on their own. The right wing policy is let big businesses prosper, and in turn they will hire more people (although this no longer works that way). For supporting big business, Bush isn't really any worse than any other Republican president I never said that was fake. Can you read minds or something? Americans definately have that on their mind. Maybe not world domination, but they want to "Flex their muscles" to the world. Um Iraq wasn't communist, it was a dictatorship, can be a big difference. I don't see how the war with Iraq was for freedom. It didn't help the American people to be free, probably put them in more danger. And the Iraqis aren't much better off, plus there were places who needed freed much more than Iraq. We don't know they're planning to attack anyone with nuclear weapons, it is a theory and one to watch. I still can't believe you voted for Bush, it makes me sick, and I'm disgusted that anyone would even consider doing such a thing.
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Post by JoePesciAddict on Nov 26, 2004 20:35:46 GMT
First off, I didn't even vote, lol. I was just for Bush and I would of voted but I didn't want to wait in thos long damn lines. Yes, actually it would. I remember in the 80's when the gas prices sky rocketed because of the upcoming war. I was only about 5 years old but I can remember it like it was yesterday. We were'nt going after oil when we first fought with Iraq, we were helping Kuwait from the Iraqi's. That is when oil prices go up. If we Americans go after a country with no intentions of raising the economy then things like gas prices sky-rocket but when we do our gas prices would decrease. Remember when they found those oil caps on Antarctica? If memory serves me well I believe the gas prices decreased then stayed steady then increased with this new war. Bush was not going after oil, he was finishing a war that was bound to be finished anyway. Explain to me how REBUILDING Iraq would help BIG Business. If that helps then Bush must be in a coma.
About inside jobs. I never said that you agreed but I was arguing with who did.
I don't think that you can see world issues better from your standpoint at all. Everything you are told on television is trying to manipulate you into thinking America is bad. I remember reading about this famous Asian. He grew up hearing very bad about America and was afraid to go but when he visited he loved it and found the people very nice. I belive this is the same with your country and many other countries. If you come to America you will have a much better standpoint in the economy and world issues. If you can prove me wrong I would like an example. I understad that decisions affect your economy but what does that say to me? I already know if any president was in power it would. Listen, Bush wasn't the only one in the administration with ideas against Gay marriage. Even Cheney was against it with his lesbian daughter. LOL! How can you think that Bush in-directly blamed Iraq for 9/11. He never even said anything about it. Although, Saddam was hiding terrorists in his country. Yes, he did KNOW about it. Saddam knew everything and anything that was going on in his country.
Well, I am sorry to say but you are thinking wrong about Korea. Kerry would of directly wanted to attack them. Oh, and I forgot.....Did Kerry vote for going to war in Iraq, I think he did. As he had nothing to say when Bush shoved that in his face during the debates.
I am not going to argue anymore on WMD's.
I was just being sarcastic about the insider thing that Walldo was talking about.
Demo's aren't always for big business I agree but Kerry was one that was. If Clinton was able to run for presidency i would have voted for him over Bush but it was the situation at hand.
I wasn't talking to you directly on the plane crash in Pennsylvania being fake.
Please, I can't believe you are saying such things about Americans. If you said that here you would be shot.
Can be, but Karl Marx who thought up of the ideas of communism had the right idea which didn't start weel when Stalin went into power. But that is differen't from the situaton except that all communism is basically a dictatorship nowadays. The only bountry I can think of is Russia who has good communism. What other countries need freeing? Iraq needed it and it was only a matter of time before Saddam would of tried to wipe out the American threat. the war was for IRAQI freedom. As you can recall the war being called "Operation Iraqi Freedom".
Korea wants badly to attack and would have if Kerry was in power. He was going to have bi-lateral talks and open us up to attack. As I said with China on our side they can't attack at all.
Please, believe America isn't that bad
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Gorek
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Post by Gorek on Nov 26, 2004 22:13:20 GMT
I dont really agree i think he had more reason but he did want the oil to!!!! The oil would hepl big businesses.
I dont agree that it was an inside job as such. but i have heard that it was Bush that trained bin ladins people. but did not expect this to happen it was like a backfire of sorts.
I agree with this it is easier to see in than out.
common sense is no reason for someone to win. He is a moron just look at most of his speechs i saw one were someon asked him what he thought of it and all he did was repeat the word saying things like : '(word) is just what (word) means. (word) is what we need as is symbolises (word)' and so on.
Again i agree completely with ren. One bit of intelligence is no reason for war. Or the whole world would be fighting. and correct me if i'm wrong but if know one is aloud weapons of mass distruction why do so many countries that have them.
USA, Korrea, China, Russia and more
name some
Not the point.
I agree with you there i believe they stood up for themselves as i would in that situation cus no point going out without even a fight. and i believe most americans feelt he same.
again i agree with ren
I agree with this
Now this i believe as i have been there and alot of the people are nice but alot are very strange or rude aswell but then again which place doesn't have both.
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RenSuzuki
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Post by RenSuzuki on Nov 27, 2004 1:55:08 GMT
First off, I didn't even vote, lol. I was just for Bush and I would of voted but I didn't want to wait in thos long damn lines. Well I guess I'm glad Bush didn't get your vote, but that isn't very good, although I guess its understandable, since those lines were crazy (and one vote really won't make a difference) Yes, actually it would. I remember in the 80's when the gas prices sky rocketed because of the upcoming war. I was only about 5 years old but I can remember it like it was yesterday. We were'nt going after oil when we first fought with Iraq, we were helping Kuwait from the Iraqi's. That is when oil prices go up. If we Americans go after a country with no intentions of raising the economy then things like gas prices sky-rocket but when we do our gas prices would decrease. Remember when they found those oil caps on Antarctica? If memory serves me well I believe the gas prices decreased then stayed steady then increased with this new war. Bush was not going after oil, he was finishing a war that was bound to be finished anyway. Explain to me how REBUILDING Iraq would help BIG Business. If that helps then Bush must be in a coma. [/quote] Once again, the extra oil is good for American business, nto necessairly the people, or even the economy. And Rebuilding Iraq is really good for big business, they can go into a country with nothing (no competition) and start building things that could make them tons of money. As well, the USA may give out contracts to help with the rebuilding. I know, I was just replying to every part of your post hmm, funny, American television networks trying to convince me America is bad. At least half of the television I watch is American (mainly channels from Detroit). And if anythging, these "big business" stations would want to convince otherwise. The best example I can think of is after Saddam's statue fell, CNN America showed the statue falling over and over, CNN World showed the same, but it was split screen, and on the other half it showed Iraqi civillian casualties. Well my situation is a little different from this famous Asian. I didn't grow up hearing bad about America, and I like America. But it has a lot of problems (not that Canada doesn't). Bush has just brought America a lot lower in my book. I have been to America, it is a nice place, lots to do, the people are generally very nice. But like I said, it has a lot of problems. ya, but Bush has had a negative impact (softwood lumber, The War with Iraq, other decisions that bring the Canadian dollar higher (this seems good, but not when considering the USA is such a large trading partner and there's is so low). You gave me someone IN HIS ADMINISTRATION. And pretty much all right winged governments are opposed to it (same with the Conservative Party in Canada (our Republicans). And you know, it's not even the issue of gay marriage specifically, its about human rights, it isn't bothering anyone, the meaning of marriage was lost long ago, its just a stupid thing to be against. If it don't concern you, who gives a shit? I don't ahve the quotes, he never actually said "Saddam did this", but he indirectly pointed out facts with Iraq, mixed Iraq and terrorism in speaches, etc. to make people believe they were involved. You know when he invaded Iraq, I somewhat supported it, I was half against it, half for it, and I'm not an idiot either, shows how easy he can manipulate people. I've seen no proof of that and Dictators hate terrorists. No one's starting any wars anytime soon. There is no way anyone would start a war with Korrea. And yes I know Kerry voted for the war, it is dissapointing, and I didn't particularly like the guy to begin with. I did find it kind of ironic how he said "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time" or whatever when he voted for it. Well personally that makes sense that Kerry would be for big business. It is always possible that he might not be greedy and be more democratic, but I agree he probably wouldn't of been. I didn't really like the guy, but look who he was against? Once again I was just replying to everything, and I wanted you to know I agree with you on something. I think you contradicted yourself there. Maybe you can't see it, but Americans can be very arrogant. I think 9/11 took some of that away from them though. Ya the basis of communism is a decent one (works on paper, but is fundamentally flawed) but every communist government turns into a dictatorship. I don't think Russia had a good communism either. But Iraq was never considred a communist country like China and Russia, they were just a dictatorship? Well not so much freeing, but countries that could really have used the money the USA spent on the war for human aid. I would much prefer living under Saddam in Iraq than living in a lot of African places, they could of used the help much more (but there's no oil in Africa). Saddam never would have tried to wipe out America, it would have been suicide. That name means nothing, it just doesn't look very good to call a war "Operation Bomb the Fuck out of IRaq" He justified the war but WMD's not Iraqi freedom. The Iraqi freedom is more so something war supporters are saying now as a reason for invading since there were no WMD's No it isn't, Bush is that bad, but American people just need some common sense
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